Ash vs Evil Dead S03E09: Judgement Day Discussion [SPOILERS]

DyD

Spinach Chin
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Oct 31, 2015
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São Paulo, Brazil
#21
this season actually has weight. Everything that happened this season has led to this, including the sperm bank. Where the morgue scene from last season was an American Pie joke at best, the sperm bank was a plot point, and played much more tastefully than they could have.
I agree that the season had weight and a thematic throughline, but you could cut out both the sperm bank and the funeral parlor scenes and it wouldn't make much of a difference to the overall storyline. It would actually free up running time for a lot of other elements that were far more interesting and deserved to be more properly developed. Even in the case of those scenes being necessary, I still believe both of them could've been handled in a different, much better manner than what we got. To me, both scenes were nothing but a reminder of everything that was wrong with the show in terms of style during the first two seasons.
 
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Crow550

S-Mart Clerk
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
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#22
Fuckin' hell. If the show was always this good it wouldn't have been canceled.

This is Evil Dead. Unrelenting. Unforgiving. Unpredictable. Chaotic. Totally bonkers.

This is the atmosphere I always wanted the show to have. Unnerving, horror taken seriously, the funny bits were actually funny.

THIS IS ASH. Smart. Sensitive. Master improviser. Relatable. Bullheaded. A common man put against insurmountable odds. His mistakes are accidental. I wish we had this Ash as the protagonist since the beginning.

I absolutely loved the Dark Ones. The special effects and LoDuca's score were AMAZING.

My only complaint is that the scenes with Brandy carbon copied ED2 a bit too much, but it isn't even that big a complaint.

@MaidOfKandar
I had no problem whatsoever with Ruby dying by the hands of the Dark Ones. In fact, I loved it. I think it was actually a better and more fitting conclusion to her convoluted mess of a storyline than getting dispatched by any of the main characters. At least Ash got to witness it and get a "fuck you" in before she was gone. I always had the feeling the main characters saw her more as a rock in their shoes they needed to get rid of than a personal antagonist. In the end it was her own past mistakes and bad decisions that killed her and she actually went out saying that Ash would be the one to defeat the Dark Ones and save the world, basically being forced to accept and believe in the things she was fighting against and trying to prevent. That was actually kinda poetic and very satisfying to watch.

@Crow550
It won't be the medieval times and there won't be any reference to characters from AoD or to a future movie, but if some spoilery images are to be believed, the ending to the show will be VERY similar to that. Which in my opinion, is the perfect way to end the series. I'm a firm believer that every chapter in Ash's story should end with him being thrown into an unknown situation far worse than the one he was in before. I wish every single season had ended like that.



Yeah, the show deserved better. For starters, it deserved better writers than the bunch of nincompoops who wrote for it during the first two seasons. Better writers, like the people who wrote these last three episodes. It also deserved showrunners, producers, network executives and a marketing team who knew what the fuck they were doing. I wish Mark Verheiden had been the showrunner from the start. Now we can truly fathom the extent of the damage DiGregorio caused.

I'm upset right there with you. The Ash vs. Evil Dead we got for these past three episodes is a completely different show than the one I've been watching for the past two and a half years. This AvED deserves to continue. Season 1 and 2 AvED deserved to get canceled and forgotten. If they could guarantee that a 4th season would follow this new path in writing, characterization and atmosphere, I'd be almost willing to campaign for it. They actually managed to fix about 75% of the issues I had with the show in just three episodes. It only took them two and a half seasons to get it right.
I moved my post. It was just my idea on what I think would be a cool idea since Universal (last I heard) was interested in doing another Army Of Darkness.... With the show done it would be a way to get more Ash. However we never know.... Another network might pick it up.

Overall great episode.
 

Guy

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
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98
#23
I only used spoiler tags because MaidOfKandar used them as well on the bit about Ruby I was replying to and Joem1k has gotten a bit sensitive about it in the last few episode threads. I only did it out of respect to them, but I agree with you.
Fair enough. Bit late in the game to set ground rules for spoiler chat I guess.
 

Surtur

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
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Likes
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#24
I agree that the season had weight and a thematic throughline, but you could cut out both the sperm bank and the funeral parlor scenes and it wouldn't make much of a difference to the overall storyline. It would actually free up running time for a lot of other elements that were far more interesting and deserved to be more properly developed. Even in the case of those scenes being necessary, I still believe both of them could've been handled in a different, much better manner than what we got. To me, both scenes were nothing but a reminder of everything that was wrong with the show in terms of style during the first two seasons.
While I found those scenes fine and enjoyable, no they weren’t crucial in the plot line, other than destroying any off Ash’s potential offspring. The thing is ironically if the series had been this pace and intensity from the start, would it carry the same weight? Season 1 was introducing us to two new characters and Ash again after 20+years. Ash hadn’t been out fighting deadites this whole time so he’s rusty, jaded, and a loner. Season 2 now they’re ramping up the darkness and we get Baal, things are more dangerous and Pablo dies kinda. Obviously things weren’t handled perfectly in season 1 and 2 but I do agree with the way they started the show out and how we ended up here. He has a daughter now, Kelly and Pablo mean a lot to him, there are stakes in the game. S1 ep 1 there were no stakes at all
 

Sutter Cane

Spinach Chin
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Likes
288
#25
Fuckin' hell. If the show was always this good it wouldn't have been canceled.

This is Evil Dead. Unrelenting. Unforgiving. Unpredictable. Chaotic. Totally bonkers.

This is the atmosphere I always wanted the show to have. Unnerving, horror taken seriously, the funny bits were actually funny and came naturally.

THIS IS ASH. Smart. Sensitive. Master improviser. Relatable. Bullheaded. A common man put against insurmountable odds. His mistakes are accidental. I wish we had this Ash as the protagonist since the beginning.

I absolutely loved the Dark Ones. The special effects and LoDuca's score were AMAZING.

My only complaint is that the scenes with Brandy carbon copied ED2 a bit too much, but it isn't even that big a complaint.

@MaidOfKandar
I had no problem whatsoever with Ruby dying by the hands of the Dark Ones. In fact, I loved it. I think it was actually a better and more fitting conclusion to her convoluted mess of a storyline than getting dispatched by any of the main characters. At least Ash got to witness it and get a "fuck you" in before she was gone. I always had the feeling the main characters saw her more as a rock in their shoes they needed to get rid of than a personal antagonist. In the end it was her own past mistakes and bad decisions that killed her and she actually went out saying that Ash would be the one to defeat the Dark Ones and save the world, basically being forced to accept and believe in the things she was fighting against and trying to prevent. That was actually kinda poetic and very satisfying to watch.

@Crow550
It won't be the medieval times and there won't be any reference to characters from AoD or to a future movie, but if some spoilery images are to be believed, the ending to the show will be VERY similar to that. Which in my opinion, is the perfect way to end the series. I'm a firm believer that every chapter in Ash's story should end with him being thrown into an unknown situation far worse than the one he was in before. I wish every single season had ended like that.



Yeah, the show deserved better. For starters, it deserved better writers than the bunch of nincompoops who wrote for it during the first two seasons. Better writers, like the people who wrote these last three episodes. It also deserved showrunners, producers, network executives and a marketing team who knew what the fuck they were doing. I wish Mark Verheiden had been the showrunner from the start. Now we can truly fathom the extent of the damage DiGregorio caused.

I'm upset right there with you. The Ash vs. Evil Dead we got for these past three episodes is a completely different show than the one I've been watching for the past two and a half years. This AvED deserves to continue. Season 1 and 2 AvED deserved to get canceled and forgotten. If they could guarantee that a 4th season would follow this new path in writing, characterization and atmosphere, I'd be almost willing to campaign for it. They actually managed to fix about 75% of the issues I had with the show in just three episodes. It only took them two and a half seasons to get it right.
I Totally agree. I could not express it better. You said it all.
 

MaidOfKandar

I May Be Bad But I Feel...Good....
Staff member
Joined
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Likes
474
#26
Annd here are my thoughts!

The Good

* The variance of gore and the proper weaving through and around of callbacks. What happened to Zoe I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

* The emotional hook between Brandy and Ash has finally solidified nicely.

* The excellent, braveau performance of the actress who played Candy in Deadite form. Wow was she a find.

* The Dark ones and their robes are the right level of horrific and silly. and they're just as they were way back in season one!


The Meh

* I would've chopped out most of the Kaya/Ruby stuff in the middle, or tightened up and explained why the attempt at the blood barrier, etc didn't work. It worked well for the sake of gore.

* I liked Brandy finally taking her level in badass to Chosen-hood, but some of the callbacks were a little heavy.

* I didn't hate the Deaditified Iphone too much, but it was a bit of a weak first time kill for the girl.


The Bad

* All of the reasoning behind Zoe's blood and flesh being used as Nec paper. I thought her speaking Latin would be more important to the grand scheme of things but it meant nothing. Also, you'd've think Ruby would have gone this route first instead of doing the long con with her son which was a total waste of time. She put in a ridiculous amount of labor for a plot that sucked up half the season, didn't benefit her character, and resulted in her only flesh and blood child dying less than five hours after he completed gestating.

* I'm still gonna be the sole voice who feels like Ruby's death needed to be at the hands of one of the Ghostbeaters. There was a note of triumph in Ash getting to watch - and again, it does establish how much of a bigger deal the non-rebellious DOs are than Ruby - but you take this highly powered character and she doesn't even bother to fight back? You give her all of these immortal characteristics and set her up as this all-powerful badass in season one (I'm ignoring season 2, since the reset button was pushed) and then just have her...give up without a fight? After tormenting our characters for years? (I disagree about the pebble in the shoe reference because she actually had Ash at her mercy in season one, completely victimized Pablo (and had him killed) and killed Kelly). That is not some mild annoyance, that is your series bigbad, and she deserved a little more forethought.

The Verdict: Everyone else definitely loved this one more than me. Though I really liked the tone, the force POV shots, the horrific mayhem and the punch of emotions, it still had its issues for me. A good ep, but not my absolute favorite!


What I Noticed

* The Elk Grove Lounge continues apace! Presumably someone has come in to take care of things without Chet's presence.

* Ash found it weird to be in that position with Kelly...after having made a pass at her in season one. Oh how time changes things.
 
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Muzzlehatch

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
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133
#28
Now I am really sad they got cancled. But at least the leave on a high note. THAT‘s the kind of scenario I wanted for the show in the first place. Omnipresent danger in a suburban enviroment. The one thing I liked the most about this episode? Brandy beeing able to achieve what the writes could not get right with Kelly and Ruby in 3 episodes: creating an entertaining, loveable and relateable character. The portrayed terror, the maniac one liners – I dont know if there was another scene in the whole show feeling so ED/Ash-like. I would not mind having a season 4 with her as the leader of the ghostbeaters and Ash on a solo trip in someother time or dimension ...
 

Surtur

Loud Mouth Braggart
Joined
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Likes
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#29
Now I am really sad they got cancled. But at least the leave on a high note. THAT‘s the kind of scenario I wanted for the show in the first place. Omnipresent danger in a suburban enviroment. The one thing I liked the most about this episode? Brandy beeing able to achieve what the writes could not get right with Kelly and Ruby in 3 episodes: creating an entertaining, loveable and relateable character. The portrayed terror, the maniac one liners – I dont know if there was another scene in the whole show feeling so ED/Ash-like. I would not mind having a season 4 with her as the leader of the ghostbeaters and Ash on a solo trip in someother time or dimension ...
I think they tried to force Kelly and Pablo a bit too much on us. Beneath all his goofiness, remember Ash is the alpha male. So they gave us a beta male in Pablo for the underdog to root on, and Kelly to be the “strong female” to root on. Except, the Kelly type characters NEVER become the final girl in horror movies, but Brandy would. The quiet girl who observes and thinks things through then exhibits unbelievable strength when called upon. Kelly was mostly all bark and no bite, very reminiscent of Dana herself who is a big personality in any room, and that is not an insult. But Brandy was who we needed. Now we have our character conclusions, where Pablo has found his strength and Kelly found humility, while Ash found a purpose.
 

Joem1k

Hero from the Sky
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#30
@Surtur
Yeah if there is one thing Mark did splendidly this season was give the main characters clear goals to achieve and actually grow beyond what they were in the past previous 2 seasons and put more heart and actual depth into them while also creating a new genuine character out of brandy as well.

And what season 3 has also done has given the past 2 seasons (mostly s1) much more strength in terms of where the characters are at now and what some of the past dialogue/events previously foreshadowed in terms of their trajectory.

Here's some examples.

1. Pablo foretelling the conclusion to kelly's revenge journey and where it lead her.

2. The small scene in brujo's house with ruby and a dark one sneaking up on her. (This little scene basically foreshadows her ultimate fate in spades now.)

3. Kelly's underlying feelings for pablo subtly hinted at in the diner scene and in the air stream afterwards.

4. Old Ash's journey from s1 to now : Jaded burnt out loner/loser whose emotionally stunted/ignorant > Caring Father/Friend/Hero whose willing to sacrifice his own well being and soul for the people around him he cares so much about.

5. Pablo's journey from s1 to now : Nerdy/Awkward employee from Value stop who ran from his heritage/past trying to figure out his place in life and his role in the fight against evil > A hardened/grizzled vet whose found his purpose in the fight against evil and has embraced his heritage fully to become the hero his always wanted to be.

Those are just some of the examples off the top of my head, but yeah, you get what i'm saying.
 
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Surtur

Loud Mouth Braggart
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#31
@Joem1k I agree with everything you said, but especially that the previous 2 seasons are better to go back and watch now. Last week I finished them both again and it was much more enjoyable, even though I liked them the first round through
 
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Philadelphia
#32
@Surtur
Yeah if there is one thing Mark did splendidly this season was give the main characters clear goals to achieve and actually grow beyond what they were in the past previous 2 seasons and put more heart and actual depth into them while also creating a new genuine character out of brandy as well.

And what season 3 has also done has given the past 2 seasons (mostly s1) much more strength in terms of where the characters are at now and what some of the past dialogue/events previously foreshadowed in terms of their trajectory.

Here's some examples.

1. Pablo foretelling the conclusion to kelly's revenge journey and where it lead her.

2. The small scene in brujo's house with ruby and a dark one sneaking up on her. (This little scene basically foreshadows her ultimate fate in spades now.)

3. Kelly's underlying feelings for pablo subtly hinted at in the diner scene and in the air stream afterwards.

4. Old Ash's journey from s1 to now : Jaded burnt out loner/loser whose emotionally stunted/ignorant > Caring Father/Friend/Hero whose willing to sacrifice his own well being and soul for the people around him he cares so much about.

5. Pablo's journey from s1 to now : Nerdy/Awkward employee from Value stop who ran from his heritage/past trying to figure out his place in life and his role in the fight against evil > A hardened/grizzled vet whose found his purpose in the fight against evil and has embraced his heritage fully to become the hero his always wanted to be.

Those are just some of the examples off the top of my head, but yeah, you get what i'm saying.
Agree completely.

Pablo's journey was something I wanted to see for a while and I'm so, so happy we got to experience it before the show ended. I always knew he had so much potential and to get that payoff is so satisfying. Ditto with Kelly; I kind of wanted to see her whole anger/revenge angle backfire a little. I wanted to see her shell crack at least a little and the payoff with her and Pablo allowed that.
 

Nick el Ass

Spinach Chin
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Likes
247
Location
Indianapolis
#33
I'm still gonna be the sole voice who feels like Ruby's death needed to be at the hands of one of the Ghostbeaters. There was a note of triumph in Ash getting to watch - and again, it does establish how much of a bigger deal the non-rebellious DOs are than Ruby - but you take this highly powered character and she doesn't even bother to fight back? You give her all of these immortal characteristics and set her up as this all-powerful badass in season one (I'm ignoring season 2, since the reset button was pushed) and then just have her...give up without a fight? After tormenting our characters for years? (I disagree about the pebble in the shoe reference because she actually had Ash at her mercy in season one, completely victimized Pablo (and had him killed) and killed Kelly). That is not some mild annoyance, that is your series bigbad, and she deserved a little more forethought.

I thought Ruby being taken out by the Dark Ones was more fitting than the Ghostbeaters since Kelly who was the most likely candidate for the job was out, and Ruby just said something like "Go on you bastards and take me. The savior of humanity will destroy you all" which was countered in the most Ash way possible, heh.

 
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DyD

Spinach Chin
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Likes
247
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
#34
Annd here are my thoughts!
The Meh

* I would've chopped out most of the Kaya/Ruby stuff in the middle, or tightened up and explained why the attempt at the blood barrier, etc didn't work. It worked well for the sake of gore.

The Bad

* All of the reasoning behind Zoe's blood and flesh being used as Nec paper. I thought her speaking Latin would be more important to the grand scheme of things but it meant nothing. Also, you'd've think Ruby would have gone this route first instead of doing the long con with her son which was a total waste of time. She put in a ridiculous amount of labor for a plot that sucked up half the season, didn't benefit her character, and resulted in her only flesh and blood child dying less than five hours after he completed gestating.

* I'm still gonna be the sole voice who feels like Ruby's death needed to be at the hands of one of the Ghostbeaters. There was a note of triumph in Ash getting to watch - and again, it does establish how much of a bigger deal the non-rebellious DOs are than Ruby - but you take this highly powered character and she doesn't even bother to fight back? You give her all of these immortal characteristics and set her up as this all-powerful badass in season one (I'm ignoring season 2, since the reset button was pushed) and then just have her...give up without a fight? After tormenting our characters for years? (I disagree about the pebble in the shoe reference because she actually had Ash at her mercy in season one, completely victimized Pablo (and had him killed) and killed Kelly). That is not some mild annoyance, that is your series bigbad, and she deserved a little more forethought.
Excluding the part about Ruby's demise at the hands of the Dark Ones, I actually agree with everything else you've said there. It's just that I was already so uninvolved with the Ruby plot that I honestly didn't care about the details anymore. I just wanted them to get rid of her and move on. Giving her a satisfying final scene was already more than what I expected from it, so it was good enough for me.
 

MaidOfKandar

I May Be Bad But I Feel...Good....
Staff member
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Likes
474
#35
@Joem1k IMO everyone but Kelly and Ruby've finally gotten some great character development this season. I'm still holding out hope for Kelly but IDK.
 
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